By Brian Lucas
Katie Iorio-Martin is the Franchise President and CEO; Partner of Dale Carnegie Training for Southeastern Pennsylvania located at 2000 Valley Forge Circle, Suites 119 & 120
King of Prussia, PA 19406. She has been involved with Dale Carnegie for over 20 years in various roles including sales, operations, and training. Katie is a top certified, multi-course trainer. She is responsible for setting corporate strategy and leading her team’s execution. Katie supports sales consultants, coaches trainers, manages all internal processes and works with clients at the strategic level. Her dedication to excellence has led her organization to numerous and prestigious awards.
This was an absolutely fascinating interview! Usually I spend time up front putting the person I am interviewing at ease. Much to my surprise, I found the tables reversed in this interview. Katie practiced what she preaches in the Dale Carnegie program with consummate style and a very natural aplomb.
She also had prepared for our interview. She came supplied with handouts and presented me with the latest Dale Carnegie book, “How to Win Friends and Influence People in the Digital Age“. Instead of lecturing me from across her desk, she sat next to me. She listened intently when I spoke and made me feel that my questions were more important to her than her answers. She took notes whenever we broke into a discussion and I made a point she particularly liked. Katie wasn’t granting me some of her “precious time” as an important CEO of a busy organization; she was having a conversation with me that was as important to her as it was to me.
In short, she made me feel like the most important person in the room, without the slightest hint of condescension. Katie Iorio-Martin is the genuine article when it comes to honest agile management! Dale Carnegie would have been proud!
Lucas: You are in an interesting position as a business. You have a very mature product that was developed long before the technologies we are inundated with today. It depends on people, not technology. So can you tell me, how the principles of Dale Carnegie apply in this technology era of working in microtime and hypertasking and how is it that you have almost 100% customer satisfaction?
Iorio-Martin: Interestingly enough, they are not just applicable, but even more necessary today than ever before. There is intense pressure to maximize the quality of our performance and unrelenting demand for incredible speed in delivering products and services today. Leaders have to be as efficient and effective as possible in their communication, understanding and cooperation with others to keep pace. In a word, we need to build a TRUST relationship with co- workers, clients and even those who market to us. Furthermore, we don’t have the luxury of necessarily meeting someone in person today to build that relationship. Social media has changed the communication paradigm so much that we can have friends, even business partners that we have never met in person. The entire relationship could exist through email, texting and Facebook or even intercompany information systems. It’s a very different world.
Lucas: You really practice what you preach, don’t you.
Iorio-Martin: That is something that is not or should not be unique to Dale Carnegie – we all work hard to do so. Believing in what you are doing is an important motivator for everyone in an organization. Studies on employee engagement have shown that as high as 50% of an enterprise’s workforce can be disengaged. Workers don’t trust or have confidence in management and vice versa. It is unfortunate that so few people are actively and positively engaged in the enterprise today. We work with organizations to increase engagement levels by working with leaders to create stronger relationships with their people. Dale Carnegie is ALL about engagement, it’s in our DNA. In fact, our programs and seminars are made effective because we use a learn-by-doing model. That is really the answer to the second part of your first question. We attain high customer satisfaction by practicing what we preach. That’s one of the central tenets of the Dale Carnegie philosophy.
Lucas: Can you give me a specific example of how your local franchise practices the Dale Carnegie philosophy.
Iorio-Martin: Yes! One way, and this is very important to us, is that we strive for long term relationships with our team members. Retaining valued employees is important to any business. In an organization, such as ours, the relationships and soft skills that are developed over years are absolutely vital to success. We have a number of people who have been with us for decades, which is unique in today’s business environment. We are fortunate.
Lucas: Not to interrupt, but your management team is actually generational now isn’t it. Passing on the management succession in a planned fashion is a key to success even in large companies.
Iorio-Martin: Yes I am the second generation management here. Our family has owned the Dale Carnegie Franchise in this area since 1985.
Lucas: Just to take a step back for a second what all does Dale Carnegie’s training cover?
Iorio-Martin: Our business is structured to work organization wide, with divisions, teams and also with individuals needing competency development. Our Customized Corporate Solutions Group provides full solutions that will impact results for a company, department or team. These could be in areas such as Succession Planning, Increasing Productivity or Sales, Diversity and Inclusion Initiatives, or Leadership/Management. Our public programs offer coaching that provides significant performance shifts in teams or individuals. These fall around our core competencies of Team Engagement, Leadership, Presentations, Communications, and Sales and are offered in both Immersion and Time Phased formats. We also use Live-Online and e-learning initiatives in both our public and in house settings to boost skill transfer before coaching and ensure retention after coaching so results are seen in the workplace and are long lasting as well as to increase flexibility in delivery options. The back drop of our programs utilizes team dynamics and intra-group activities to build and strengthen interpersonal relations. We show people how adapt to the fast-changing workplace conditions in our modern technologically rich environment.
Lucas: It is interesting, this importance of human skills, in a technological age, don’t you think?
Iorio-Martin: In many ways these social, moral and emotional skills are the only stability we actually have left to us. They are what help us to enjoy our work as well as our very lives. Dale Carnegie himself said, “The ideas I stand for are not mine. I borrowed them from Socrates. I swiped them from Chesterfield. I stole them from Jesus. And I put them in a book. “He also said that, “People rarely succeed unless they have fun in what they are doing.”
Lucas: You mentioned the word, “adapt”, in your previous answer. It’s a word I am rather fond of since it is how I view agile. How has your franchise adapted to the changing times?
Iorio-Martin: First, we have from the global presence of Dale Carnegie and Associates. They invest in surveys and fund and conduct research on a broader scale, which could be done at just a local level, which demonstrates our expertise and sustainability. Second, we both listen to and try to anticipate our customer’s changing needs. For example, more than 50% of our business is conducted onsite in conjunction with an organizations’ larger learning plan and we have varied both the length of time and the duration of our training over recent years. Lastly, we are leveraging technology to expand our reach and services with social media like Facebook, LinkedIn, and blogs.
Lucas: How do you implement these adaptations or changes?
Iorio-Martin: Generally speaking, a little at a time. We do something discrete that we can measure, get feedback, analyze it, and learn from the experience in taking the next step. This is a constant process and there is a great deal of training that takes place behind the scenes with our teams before rolling something out to clients.
Lucas: Again I don’t want to interrupt, but you have just described the quintessential agile concept. You don’t have any training in agile do you? You’re a natural agilest!
Iorio-Martin: (chuckling) No, I don’t have any formal training in agile as you put it. Otherwise this would not be an interview with a natural agilist, I suppose. To seriously address the other side of your question though, these are the lessons learned in surviving and thriving in a business. It is the experience and the knowledge of what works. From a Dale Carnegie, “the man” perspective; it reaches back even further to his book, “How to Win Friends and Influence People” published in 1936. And Carnegie practiced these techniques as far back as 1912, when he filled lecture halls to capacity with his talks on public speaking. It’s really timeless wisdom. And of course, Dale Carnegie practiced what he preached.
Lucas: And that was the secret to his success.
Note: At the time of publication the author never worked for nor had any financial interest in Dale Carnegie Training for Southeastern Pennsylvania.
Here are links to the whitepapers Katie graciously has made available.
This was some incredible interview! I am very impressed with Katie Iorio-Martin’s attitude. Her command of her thoughts as she is speaking is pure poetry. No wonder her franchise has won awards! I ran across this looking for business agility and employee satisfaction. I had heard of Dale Carnegie of course. I mistakenly felt it was part of an ancient past of over the top winning personality schemes. Katie has made a very compelling case for the importance of an honestly positive attitude towards ones business and personal relationships. God knows we could all do with some stability in this hectic world we live and work in. I am going to have to check into Dale Carnegie training. I guess in fairness, I have to compliment the interviewer as well. He seemed to ask the right questions and not get in the way. Many other reporters try to prove how clever they are and end up being annoying. I’ll have to check out the rest of this blog and see what it is about. I wonder if Katie has a blog? If so I would like to check it out as well. -Ellen
I have read all the interviews in the “Interviews with a natural agilist” series. They are all impressive. The reason is obvious. Brian selects the person to be interviewed carefully and is very skillful at guiding the interview. I have seen interviews with news making heavy hitters that did not come off half as smoothly or informative as this series.
I second that Dornie!
Thanks Dornie! I wanted to add a new dimension in agile thinking with the interviews with a natural agilist series and it has proven to be very popular with the readership. I am careful with my reader selection as you noted. I try to reach out to people from all walks of life and many different professions to prove that agile is a state of mind rather than just a software development process. Early on someone suggested that I interview big names and that just didn’t feel right to me. I feel that if people see others just like them thinking and acting agile they will be inspired to do the same.
Hi Ellen, thanks so much for your kind feedback. This is my first blog experience and Brian certainly made the process easy and fun. Glad you are going to check into Dale Carnegie. The organization really has much to offer people and companies, especially in our hectic world, as you mention. I applaud your open mindedness. Katie
Thanks for responding Katie, do you write a blog or are you on Facebook?
Ellen, I currently do not blog. Dale Carnegie has two blog / magazines if you are interested. http://blog.dalecarnegie.com/ and http://www.dalecarnegiewayphilly.com/, if you are interested. Thanks for the vote of confidence. As Brian mentions, we are talking about some ideas. Katie
Ellen – Thanks for commenting. I don’t know if Katie blogs or not we are going to discuss possible collaboration on agile and interpersonal communications. -Brian
I have to agree with Ellen. Katie Iorio-Martin clearly knows what she is talking about and expresses herself well. I took the DC training years ago in California and thought it was helpful. I admit I did not practice these lessons as well as Katie does. Katie’s interview brought some things back to my mind that I had forgotten. I believe I will sign up for the course again. From an overall I thought the correlation of agility to interpersonal communications was both apropos and nicely done. Mr. Lucas is a clever writer as the title shows and how he skillfully tied it to the end of the interview. That was a very nice touch. The whole lead in to this interview where Mr. Lucas recounts his impression of the interview was very revealing. Katie clearly practices what she preaches. It might be interesting to get Katie’s impression of the interview as well.
I too would be interested in hearing Katie’s impression as well. Brian provided his impression of Katie, so what did she think of him? Was the interview smooth from her perspective? Would she do it again? etc. I just think it would be interesting to see what she is thinking.
Brian is pretty much an enigma Elaine. If you want to find out a bit more about him read the comments on his post the Night of the Deadly MIcromanager. I’d like to know what Katie thought as well. Hearing things from the interviewee side is always interesting. Did Brian arrive on time? How was he dressed? Did he make small talk? Was he courteous? Does she think he is a good conversationalist? Would she change anything if she could do it again? Did she think that Brian was practicing Dale Carnegie techniques during the interview? Most probably she will not want to answer these kind of questions, but we can always ask.
How cool, I’m glad to flip the table around and give my feedback of Brian. I found the whole experience easy. Brian and I truly just sat down and had a conversation. Sure, he had prepared questions, yet he too demonstrated agility in being able to follow the natural flow of the conversation. Let me also back-up. Brian reached out to me in advance, to discuss how the process would work and what type of questions he was considering. I was able to gather my thoughts and make the interview more fluid. He also brought me a present, a box of Josh Early Chocolates (yum!), since we met on Valentine’s Day. Both actions helped me be less nervous, and I appreciated both. He was professional, on time, well dressed, listened intently, and was very courteous. Brian also had a working knowledge of Dale Carnegie which allowed for more depth in our conversation. When he left my office, I felt great, it was fun!
Wow some guy who is polite, dresses well, is on time, actually listens and is courteous enough to want to make you feel relaxed…AND brings you chocolates! What do I have to do to get interviewed by Brian? Sounds like a real gentleman. I bet he opens doors for ladies as well. I didn’t know there were any left. When I was interviewed for my catering business it was at a crowded coffee shop and I had to buy the coffee. I ended up getting 2 lousy lines in the web listing. This is the best interview I have ever read! If having Dale Carnegie skills brings interviewers like this to your door, I’m signing up for the training.
A little off topic Debbie, but I have to say mea culpa on wanting to be interviewed by Brian. I notice his last dedication seemed pretty romantic though. Darn!! lol
Charlene – I am afraid I will have to remain an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. Things got a little out of hand in the comment stream of The Night of the Deadly Micromanager, but it was a very popular post. I of course don’t discourage the people I interview nor any of the people who happen to know me from providing their impressions. I generally approve all comments that don’t have vulgarity in them or are personally denigrating of another person.Thanks for being a reader. -Brian
Elaine – as Gandalf said in the Hobbit, “Great horse feathers!” Don’t you know mystery is always more intriguing than reality. -Brian
Thanks for commenting Arnette! I think that we all could use a refresher in interpersonal communications now and again. I encourage you whole heartily to reengage with Dale Carnegie training. I try very hard to bring out the best thinking of the person I am interviewing without influencing them. Keeping the interview moving without overshadowing the conversation can be a challenge, but that is one of the fun aspects.
I will certainly agree that this interview is very well done and puts Dale Carnegie and Ms. Iorio-Martin in a very positive light. As a senior executive, I would pay for this kind of publicity. It would helpful to see Ms. Iorio-Martin address, in greater detail, more of the business agility aspects of the training she provides or how the Dale Carnegie training can affect business agility. Particularly around reorganization efforts. This would make an interesting post in my opinion. It is a subject that many companies are struggling with. I wonder if Dale Carnegie is a missing part of the reorganization efforts that have failed. Quite a few come to mind. Perhaps Ms. Iorio-Martin and Mr. Lucas will coauthor a white paper.
I would be interested in that post as well! I too enjoyed this interview.
I would love to see a white paper on the how communications and relationships are affected by social media and immediate and constant communication in the agile world.
Thanks for the suggestion Phyllis! This is an area that interests me as well and I intend to address.
I would vote for this as well!
We often find in working with organizations, that they have strategic plans in place as well as processes to execute the plan. However, they often overlook the people strategy to ensure the proper actions are taken to bring the plan to fruition. A people plan that aligns with the strategic plan accounts for the fact that people bring plans to life. The company has to believe their people are the key to securing the company’s future. That’s where Dale Carnegie comes into the picture. We partner with the organization to build the people side of the equation. Dale Carnegie recently conducted seminal research in the US with the prestigious research firm MSW Research. We feel this research will begin a strong movement back to the fundamentals of relationship building, perhaps in new ways. Specifically, we explored what drives employee engagement. The three main drivers from the research are: relationship with the immediate manager, belief in senior leadership, and pride in the organization. Building strong relationships and maintaining open communication are what ignites people to bring their best into the organization. We did wrote a series of white papers on the research. I will see if Brian is able to post them.
This is dead on target. I wish more companies realized this. I really think that agile and Dale Carnegie are natural fits. The people plan as Katie puts it is what is missing from many agile initiatives. I look forward to reading these white papers. Thanks for sharing them Katie.
I think Dale Carnegie should offer a specific training program for critical communications for agile implementations.
Andrew Parmalee, CSM
Hi Katie and Brian: Super interview! It sure is getting a lively comment stream. I ran across this looking for agile and communications. I understand what Katie is saying and I agree with Pete’s comment as well. I think though that there is yet another missing component and its the bridge from Katie’s obvious good communication and interpersonal skills and what I am guessing from his blog is Brian’s technical agile skills. I am not saying Brian isn’t a great communicator he obviously is. What I mean is that there must be a sort of technical discipline to agile communications in a business environment to make them effective that is narrower in focus than the general Dale Carnegie training. I am not talking about user stories or cucumber language. I am referring to business communications in an enterprise that has a fluid structure. You might be working with someone closely and intensely that you never worked with before. You don’t have months or weeks to build and interpersonal relationship. Most importantly you have to be precise and complete enough in your communications to accomplish something rapidly. I am familiar with Blanchard’s One Minute Manager principle, but that doesn’t quite fit. I almost see it as a set of detailed rules for communicating, maybe dependent on media that take the Dale Carnegie platitudes and fine tunes them for agile operations. I imagine it is what you would get if Katie and Brian were both members of the same team. Maybe agile teams need ombudsmen one technical like Brian one and interpersonal communication expert like Katie. I am not talking about the lame communications plans that everyone does when they say they follow ITIL practices. It seems to me that if the communications can be refined as part of the people plan Katie talks about, it would solve some of the biggest issues in business today.
Thanks for a great comment Bob! Very thoughtful! You are talking about something that I have been thinking about for some time – the discipline of agile communications and agile relationships. I have nick named it “Agile Speak”. It is one of the subjects I will talk to Katie about! I have seen the ombudsman approach taken and it does work. It also drives up the cost as well so it is best used only as a tactical solution. I believe much of what you said is prophetic. Feel free to email me if you wish.
Thanks for the quick response. It’s a relief to know someone is thinking along the same lines. I am looking forward to the correspondence.
It is very gracious of Katie to make these white papers available to the readership here and I will definitely post them.
Frank – Thanks for the compliment! I am glad you enjoyed the interview. The goal of these interviews is to share experience and information and inspire people to think and be agile by living example. I am believe Katie is interested in exploring this subject further. She and I will be speaking further shortly. I think that Dale Carnegie could be a very significant part of the success of agile reorganization efforts. Also many of these reorganization efforts are driven from the top down with little consultation or involvement from the people targeted. That in itself is totally opposite the concept of agile principles. No wonder so many efforts fail. -Brian
Hi Brian: Yet another super interview! I love how much information you are able to draw from your interviews and how cohesive they are. You really have this down to an art form! They are all so good and each one brings it’s own strengths to the table that I could not say which is my favorite. You seem to get along so well with all your interviewees. I am so glad to see that you are posting a bit more now. I hope you can find the time to continue.My practice is very busy right now thanks for your unselfish help and very good advice. You are a gem! I will absolutely let you know next time I am back in the “Little Apple” so we can catch us!
Thanks Sally I definitely look forward towards the next time we can get together and swap stories.
Nice interview in a good series. I haven’t commented before, but I found I was so impressed with Katie, that I just had to. I guess one of Brian’s skills is that he is an ENABLER and brings out the best in people. All his interviews are outstanding. As a commercial bank manager, I find How to Win Friends and Influence People is more applicable now than ever as Katie correctly maintains. In this fast paced world, you have at any time only a few moments to make a good or bad impression. You need to make the most of them. I even have a Dale Carnegie app for my smart phone. I use it to help keep me centered when things get hectic. I also would vote for a followup article along the lines Frank Bowman suggested. It would be an interesting subject since we are considering initiatives along those lines.
Thanks Jennifer. Glad you are using the App. Banking does seem to be one the most hectic industries. I believe there are four Apps now, and they are all pretty interesting, Brian and I are talking about the suggestions made, we’ll see what happens. Katie
This will be interesting to see what happens. When you put two smart people together who are great communicators and thinkers powerful things can happen. I find it almost hard to believe this was Katie’s first blogging experience she’s so smooth. It would be cool if they did a webinar or an hour long chat that was live, but I wait and see what they come up with. -J
Well I will say for the record that I Katie is a smart person and she is a very smooth communicator. Thanks for the webinar suggestion and a number of my readers and those who attended my last webinar have been calling for an open chat.
As a fellow businesswoman I think Katie should start her own blog or if she doesn’t want to do that much work and it does take a chunk off tine, maybe she could guest write on Brian’s blog. It seems that Katie felt Brian was easy to work with. They also seem to be complimentary thinkers and it might offer them more of an opportunity to further collaborate. I would love to see Katie’s perspective on more organizational issues on a regular basis.
I agree Katie’s perspective on many areas would be valuable.
Thanks for commenting Jennifer! I am glad you decided to take the plunge! lol The financial industry is under a tremendous amount of fire and has been for quite a while. I sympathize with the pressures you are under. I am working on defining what a Master Agilist is and I believe one of the first requirements is that they bring out the best in others. Great idea to have a DC app on your smart phone! I have one as well.
What a powerful interview! So often business owners in Katie’s position come off smug and overconfident. Katie sounds so down to earth and presents herself so well- I wish I worked for her. She said one thing that I have to disagree with though. She said they were fortunate. I don’t think her franchise is fortunate. They are enjoying the benefits of having a very intelligent and capable leader who understands the importance of treating employees well and building long term relationships with them. I hope senior executives in companies that treat people as commodities take note and learn from her example!
Gail, wow, thank you very much! These comments are powerful for me. Dale Carnegie said “Treat employees as valuable people with skills versus people with valuable skills.” What a huge difference a change in emphasis makes! Thanks again, Katie
I have been a freelance business reporter for 17 years and this was a heck of an interview on the part of the interviewer and interviewee. The introduction up front set the stage and gave us insight into Katie’s demeanor. The opening question made the interview relevant. Brian asked direct questions, kept the interview moving and did not get in the way of Katie as she expounded on each answer. Finally Brian ended the interview with a return to the title making it a clever conclusion and tying it all together. In short this was darn near perfect. On sentence that Katie said is, i think, worthy of quoting, “In a word, we need to build a TRUST relationship with co-workers, clients and even those who market to us.” This has been said before and other ways it is true, but Katie has put her finger on the most important aspect of running a business today to my way of thinking – brand loyalty. No one is perfect and can be number 1 always. You can’t always have the lowest price, the best product, the fastest customer service, etc. You and your competition will always jockey back and forth. Some of it will be from long established companies. Some of it will be from small enterprising upstarts. If you are in a position where your customers will leave you to save a penny, you’re in trouble. Katie clearly understands the importance of believing in what you do, trying to be the best at what you do and how to bring out the best in others, She definitely sounds like a natural agilist and a very enlightened executive.
Thanks so much Arnold.
Ditto on that Arnold! I would love to work for someone like Katie who has her act together!!!
Wow Thanks Arnold! Praise from a professional is very rewarding! I consider myself an armature, but I am trying to do my best to get the facts and see that each interview is interesting and readable. I also recognize that if they are not entertaining no one will want to read them.
Excellent interview! Crisp, clear, well spoken from both Brian’s questions and Katie’s answers. Much better than 95% of the other interviews I have read. I now have to read the rest of this series. If these two do a follow up white paper or interview I’d be interested as well!
Katie says they earn customer satisfaction by believing in what they are doing. Obviously they did not ship their customer support off shore as so many other companies did to increase their profits at the expense of their customers. I realize that this does not necessarily apply to Dale Carnegie, but I can’t imaging someone of Katie’s intelligence and customer oriented mind set doing something this idiotic anyway. This isn’t a rant, just an acknowledgement that if you want the same kind of customer satisfaction and loyalty Katie reports she enjoys you need to treat your customers like she does!!!!!!!
I am fortunate enough to have great and talented team members! I could not take care of our customers without our team. They truly build strong relationships with our clients, listen to their needs, make suggestions, and advocate for them.
Excellent Interview and I particularly like the dynamic and ever changing nature of the business Katie is in and her desire to constantly seek to improve their services and implement change through the process of testing, measuring, gathering feedback.
Thank you both for sharing this!
Thanks for commenting George and being a reader! Professional opinion like yours is always welcome and in fact a treat!
What an excellent series of interviews. I admire Brian for not going after celebrates of business and instead finding people we can all model ourselves after. Katie sounds really interesting I am going to have to check out the DC training. I’ve never taken it. Dru
This was a very nice way to remind us that in the world of technology people still count and people talking to people make everything happen. Nicely done Katie and Brian! You should do a talk show!
A very high powered interview from two people that apparently do not put on airs. That is something that made this a pleasure to read. Katie made a very beautiful statement when she said that relationship building was in her DNA. That certainly explains why she does it so well. If she publishes a speaking engagement I would like to attend one of her events. She organizes her thoughts so well, she makes it easy to understand her. It also seemed to me that Brian and Katie communicated very well in this interview. I wonder if they have known each other for a while or are just two very smart like minded people.
Thanks Darla! When you mentioned airs, I got this comical visualization of myself blowing up a hot air balloon all by myself – successfully. lol Its how my mind works! I think very graphically and conceptually. If ever I sense I am putting on an air, I’ll bring up this image in my mind and that should deflate my balloon! I also liked Katie’s comment that relationship building was in their DNA. I would agree! Katie was definitely very down to earth in her interview.
Anyone know if Dale Carnegie has books on tape?
Yes, they are available. Sites have them online and many local libraries carry them as well.
Brian it was good meeting you and I thank you for your no nonsense advice on investing. Obviously I did go to your blog. This was a good interview. You darn near have me wanting to sign up for the Dale Carnegie training. I checked out several of your other posts and let me say flat out, you’re good! The Agile Memorial was a damn fine piece of work! Maybe I’ll run into you at the Wooden Match.
Richard Scarsdale, US Army, retired
Kathie you are a business goddess! Can I come work for you?
Oh Katie where for art thou? and why don’t I have a manager who is a enlightened, articulate and intelligent as you are?
Excellent interview Katie. I see that you have such a high customer satisfaction rate that it is remarkable. Do you also measure the customer transformation somehow. What I mean is that as a business consultant, I measure customer sat, but I also follow up with hard data such as 6 month profitability, cost reduction and client increase, etc. I was curious to see what Dale Carnegie did.
I am so impressed by how Katie expresses herself in this interview. I respect the fact that you let her put forth her ideas uninterrupted Brian! Did you ever follow up with her on ideas you mentioned?
Nice interview! Makes me want to take a DC course!